Here we are going to tell you the story about the work with Bombay in FIFe.
It started with Mary buying a Burmese, the result of a cross between Bombay and Burmese to use in outcross breeding in her Burmese breeding program.
She saw the sister of the male Burmese she was going to buy, a Bombay named Qajza, Mary went home and called Britta and told her about the Bombay. She wanted to buy one herself. She wanted her own black panther on her couch.
Both Mary and Britta started planning to buy their own Bombays and to actually work to get them recognized in FIFe.
Contact was made with the SVERAK office and the registrar to find out how we would proceed and also with breeders in TICA, CFA, WCF and LOOF.
Mary’s Bombay female was born in TICA with Qajza as her mother. Meanwhile, two Burmese had been registered in SVERAK with Bombay parents. They had been exhibited in class 13b, control class.
We formed a Breed Council for the breed.
When it was time for us to start looking at registration rules, we had to ask the question – what would happen to OUR Burmese outcomes after two Bombay?
Two of such had been registered as Burmese, bought from TICA and LOOF.
We asked the SVERAK registrar that tild us that our Burmese offspring would be registered as XSH (BOM) with no possibility of reregistration. For us that was odd. If they are born in oher federations they can be reregistered in FIFe, but not born directly in FIFe. So we had to sort that out. here is our first letter to the BRC (Where the SVERAK registrar is a member)
Hello Ole and BRC,
I got permission to contact You directly regarding the recognition procedure of the Bombay. But of course I BC Nathalie so she can follow our contacts. I also BC Britta Kjellin as I give her proxy to contact the BC on my behalf or answer any question in case I’m not available.
We in the BC BOM non would like any input and help you might have for this recognition process and would appreciate any forms and other info that you might have that will help us in our work.
A question we have in this stage is regarding the cb/cb outcome of a mating between two BOM non carrying cb, or a mating between BUR n and a BOM non carrying cb. How will this outcome be registered in FIFe? Both CFA and Tica will register them directly as BUR n, but we don’t see that being possible with the rules in FIFe. We are not even sure if the rules allows for registration as XSH n 33 [BUR]…? At least the later would be great as it would benefit the Burmese gene pool and ease the cooperation between breeders in other organizations.
As a note we can add that we test all BOM and BUR used in the BOM breeding for colour to avoid any not recognized colours (like mating of two a or b carriers). The cb/cb however is a completely different thing as we see it.
We really need the opinion of the BRC in this matter and maybe some kind of temporary registration rule until preliminary recognition. If you have an opinion on how to proceed with the preliminary recognition regarding BUR as a completely stand-alone breed vs sister breed to the BUR, this would also be much appreciated.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions you might have.
FIFe BC Secretary BOM non
The answer we had in return:
Thank you for your mail!
Just remember when writing with the BRC to copy in the General Secretary and the other two members og the Commission!
We will as soon as possible discuss the matter in the commission, but ANY registration in this recognition phase must be done according to the BRC and for the BUR there are strict rules for registration and breeding.
In this phase I think you should focus on what you want to do with the BOM non and try to create “Special restrictions and registration rules for BOM” before involving the BUR. These breeding and registration are essential for checking of the pedigrees and for you own decission of cats to use in the breeding!
It would be helpful for the commissions if you send us the plans for develloping the BOM – non and other relevant material according to BRR aticle 10.2.2
We (the BRC) would be happy to recieve pedigrees of all the cats involved in the recognition, names of the breeders involved etc.
We would also be happy to help you drafting the breeding and registration rules based on your plans and intentions.
Please send us the nessecary material and you thoughts, and we will ASAP deal with the question.
Mange hilsner / Best regards
Our answer on this email;
The reason why we need the BRC’s view on the registration of a cb/cb offspring from two BOM non is that we already, in FIFe, have cats registered as BUR with BOM parents. These cats are imported from other organisations where they are registered as BUR (according to their registration rules). They are, when imported to FIFe, registered as XSH n 31 [BUR] and after judgment in 13b re-registered as BUR n.
Here is one of them: http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/446211
It would be strange to say the least if we can import cb/cb offsprings from two BOM from ie Tica and have them recognized as Burmese i FIFe but not allow the breeders in FIFe, who are working hard for the recognition, to have the cb/cb offsprings given at least the chance to register the same way. That way we would be surprised if anyone would want to continue the work of having BOM recognized in FIFe.
To take it further, if a breeder in FIFe register a litter from two BOM where there are cb/cb offsprings both in FIFe and Tica they will be registered as BUR in Tica but XSH n 31 [???] in FIFe. This is what needs to be clarified; what will be in the brackets? If [BOM] the cat will never be recognized as Burmese in FIFe, neither as Bombay. This is strange as you actually could have a burmese pointed HCS recognized as Burmese through novice class, but not a pedigreed cat that is genetically burmese and recognized as such in other organisations.
BUT! The breeder could sell the cat to a FIFe breeder in another country as registered i Tica and the new owner can have the cat registered as XSH n 31 [BUR] and later through 13b as Burmese… still the breeder in FIFe could NOT get the offsprings registered like that.
We see that this is a very special case where it potentially will be negative to breed BOM in FIFe, which is why we think this needs to be addressed before going through the pedigree of cats and the planned breeding programs. We would really like to have this question dealt with separately and answered before going any further with the process of recognition as we KNOW we can not avoid getting the cb/cb offsprings.
If we are to avoid mating cb carriers in the BOM breeding we might as well stop the process of recognition before we start… the genepool is already too narrow in other organizations where cross breeding of BUR and BOM are allowed, so it would be impossible to breed healthy BOM with wide genetic variety without mating two cb carriers. It would also make importing of BOM from other organizations extremely hard as the breeders in other organizations are not interested in testing all their offspring to find non-carriers for FIFe breeders. They will just sell elsewhere.
FYI. As of today all cats planned to use in the BOM breeding program are owned or bred by one of the three BC BOM members: Mary Hellman, Britta Kjellin and Ilga Liljenberg. The cats are all registered in SVERAK. Of nine cats, seven is cb carriers.
http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/458080 mating planned
http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/463925 litter expected end of June
http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/463994 mating planned
http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/450920 litter born 2019-02-06:
http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Avkommor/450920 one male is sold for breeding within the FIFe program.
Breed Council secretary BOM non
The answer on our mail. Where we get shotloads for the wrongly made registrations in SVERAK. Of course we had to ask this???
You mail has raised some alarm bells for the Commission.
Looking at the link you put in your mail: http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/446211 leads to a pedigree of a cat registered in SVERAK. This registration is NOT correct!
A letter will be sent to the FIFe Board with a request to have this registration corrected in the SVERAK Pedigree Book immediately!
FIFe rules dictate that a cat’s breed determined by the parents: two parents of the same breed produce offspring of the same breed. The only exception to this rule is where a sister breed has been declared and then the offspring may be any of those sister-breeds by phenotype.
In simple terms, registration where two BOM non will not have offspring which are registered as BUR. BOM non have NO declared sister-breed. It makes no difference if the cat in question has been shown in Class 13b as this class is for establishing the correct EMS code for a trait, e.g. colour, pattern, etc. and NOT for determining the breed.
This fact has been dealt several times in connection with other breeds by both the Board and the BRC!
There is no confusion regarding registration of Burmese pointed offspring from two BOM non – they must be registered as XSH * 31 (BOM non) within a permitted breeding programme, and cannot be re-registered as anything other than the Target Treed i.e. (BOM non)
It is extremely important that what we are dealing with are the FIFe rules; whatever rules they have in other organisations are of no relevance to us. These rules exist to bring uniformity across breeding within all FIFe Members and form a base line of control.
When you started the procedure to have the BOM non recognised as a new FIFe breed and you asked SVERAK for permission to your breeding program and we assume that the rules regarding this were followed according to article of the FIFe Breeding & Registration Rules: 8.2 Breeding with unrecognised breeds
…The application for such breeding must contain at least information on the breed, a full breeding programme, the intended standard and scale of points together with the philosophy of the breed…
The Commission would like to see this information particularly the breeding programme, the intended standard and the philosophy of the breed!
You should also be aware that the BOM should be established in FIFe as a FIFe breed and that in the preliminary recognition phase there must be FIFe breeders from at least three different countries!
The Commission would like to find out more about what you want and expect in the development of this breed: this is what we term the philosophy of the breed! This is pertinent given that this is not a “new breed” but the establishment of an already recognised breed from another association that will seek recognition within FIFe.
Our understanding from looking at the Standard in CFA (the originating Registry) is that this is a cat with a Burmese and American Shorthair ancestry. It should be a non-agouti, solid black cat with eye colour from green to gold. No other colours are permitted with that registry, nor in others we can identify. We are aware that the Bombay is also a variety within the GCCF Asian Group, but this has type identical to the Burmese and it distinctly different to that seen in other organisations.
On looking at your pedigrees you appear to want to have an outcross to the BUR, in addition to having the BUR as a sister breed, permitting the pointed offspring to be registered as BUR from a mating between BOM and BUR. Is this correct?
In our opinion, it will cause some problems if you want the BOM non to be a “one colour breed” i.e. a black cat but have permission to crossbreed with BUR which are recognised in many colours. Should the crossbreeding be permitted you will start up mudding things up with a lot of recessive colours, or should only homozygous black BUR n be permitted?
Regarding the Sister Breed status between the BUR and the BOM non: has this status been discussed in the BUR breed council? Or in any forum with BUR breeders to get an idea if the BUR breeders want this?
Looking into the sister breed status, the definition of a sister breed is described very clearly in the FIFe Breeding & Registration Rules: 6.1.1 Sister breeds
Sister breeds are breeds which share the same standards except for coat length and/or pattern. For recognised breeds, sister breeds can be inter-mated without permission, except if indicated otherwise in this chapter.
As you can see, this article clearly states that this is only possible if the standards of the two breeds are the same except for pattern and coat. In this case we do have two completely different patterns – Burmese pointed and solid black (of the Bombay), however we are not sure that the standard of the BOM and BUR are the same, such as happens with other Sister breeds, e.g. ABY/SOM, SIA/BAL, BSH/BLH.
Should sister breed status be granted, any colour BUR can be freely mated BOM with the result that other varieties than black will occur among the offspring unless there are restrictions in the Article 6.1.3. Special breeding and registration rules for BOM non which only allows homozygous black BUR to be used.
The sister breed status also with only black cats/BUR n permitted will require that the BUR / BOM standard to be the same.
Such changes will have to be valid for all breeding within FIFe, and will require not only the acceptance of the new breed BOM by the majority of FIFe Members, but also the acceptance of consequential changes to the registration conditions for BUR. This would raise problems in case of imports from other organisations, according to the links of pedigrees you have sent!
From your submission, we see that the standards differ between the two proposed Sister breeds, and that the BOM standard from other organisations and the FIFe BUR standard do not match.
You may wish to explore the possibility of working with a “one way sister breed” (this is not an official status but my wording) as is mentioned in the PEB where PEB and crosses between BAL/OLH/OSH/SIA can be used for breeding PEB and offspring with normal fur will be registered as non-recognised varieties of PEB, which cannot be used for anything else but breeding PEB. However, this option still also requires the two breed standards to be the same.
The third option is to have a permitted outcross such as is used for the SRL/SRS where EXO/PER and BLH/BSH are permitted outcrosses however, breeders must follow the same procedure as for any other outcross. In this case you can operate with different standards, but your breeding and registration rules will be very difficult to work with, and you will have to have every BOM non born out of a crossbreeding to be shown in Class 13b.
The matter regarding how to register Burmese Pointed offspring from two BOM non is absolutely clear in the present rules. Offspring from two BOM non can NEVER be registered nor re-registered as BUR, no matter where the breeding has taken place.
As we have described above, to be able to do this there will have to be a sister breed status which will require the same standard for the two breeds (except for pattern) and acceptance from the FIFe GA. Both will have to be a (preliminary) recognition of the BOM and agreement to sister breed status for the BOM and BUR.
For the moment BRR article 6.5 lists of the recognised colours for BUR – FIFe will not support any other colour variety than the one mentioned! It is our understanding that this also include sister breeds!
To move forward with this project we advise that you do the following:
• Send us the information from your breeding permission from SVERAK according to article 8.2 of the BRR
• Determine which standard you want to use, or an alternative standard with adjustments you deem necessary?
• Decide what should happen with the pointed offspring and offspring in other colours than black?
• Decided whether you want to work towards a full sister breed status or a “one-way sister breed” like the PEB? In both cases you will need to discuss this with the BUR BC!!(You cannot have the same breeding rules as in TICA as we are dealing with different breeds / standards)
• Should there be any restrictions for the cats used for outcross – no dilution, no chocolate, no red etc?
This is the minimum information we need to begin to deal with this matter, and there will probably be more questions once we start to work on this matter!
The Commission want to avoid is a situation like the THA have faced with mis-interpreted registration rules and standards regarding imports!
Breeding and Registration Commission
Maria Myrland, secretary
We were chocked by the tone in this email, and felt accused for the wrongly made registrations. Mary and Britta answered as Secretaries for the BUR BC and the BOM non BC:
Dear Breeding and Registration Commission
Copy to the FIFe Board, JSC, DC, SC, HWC, BC administrator.
In this letter we use BOM as short for BOM non (Bombay).
First we want to mention that we are very surprised by the quality of the rhetoric and
the excessive use of exclamation marks in your letter!
Ending almost every single sentence by screaming to the receiver is a very rude way
to express oneself!
This makes what you wrote difficult to read in any other way than the BRC being
extremely upset on us in the BOM non BC and that you are demanding us to explain
ourselves and our actions. Something we find surprising as we don’t know what we
did to upset the BRC. Anyway, all of the BRC members are from FIFe members
(SVERAK, NRR, FD) who has in every possible way been involved in the Bombay
project before it even started, and in the registration of BUR from BOM parents, so
whatever we did you were well aware of it.
We will start by giving you the history of this project:
It all started in 2015 when Mette Lambert in Denmark got her Securitazz
Jewlzgalore, (DK)FD RX 220142(RR), registered in FIFe
https://katte.felisdanica.dk/?id=201774 . We; Mette, Britta and Mary; have had a big
interest in the outcross projects for the Burmese for a long time, trying to find
different ways to make the breed healthier. Mette, who is in TICA herself, introduced
us to Helena Wiklundh, the TICA breeder of Jewlzgalore.
Mary then bought a Burmese male, with a Burmese mother and a Bombay father,
from Helena. BeforeMary bought him she was in contact with SVERAK and had
everything sorted out on how to have him registered in SVERAK. He was shown in
13b and judged by Sirpa Lindelöf and Helene Lis. His name is Securitazz Quinzy,
(SE)SVERAK RX 336233RR http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/428165
When Mary bought Quinzy, his Bombay sister Qajza caught her eye. She fell in love
with the black beauty and asked Helena for a daughter after her and the thought of
having Bombay recognized in FIFe started. We again contacted SVERAK (several
times) and asked how to go about with the registration (this also involving
registration of cb/cb offsprings) and got it all sorted out. We studied pedigrees, we
contacted breeders in other federations, we checked health status of the breed, etc,
before buying the first of our Bombays: Securitazz Xtravaganza (SE)SVERAK RX
During this time Marie Brandberg in Björkstakatten/SVERAK wanted to join the
Burmese outcross project and bought Securitazz Uzi. The cat with the pedigree that
apparently has made such a storm in FIFe. Uzi had a pedigree from TICA, where her
breed is stated as Burmese. She was registered as XSH n 31 [BUR], shown in 13b
and re-registered as BUR, all within SVERAK. Uzi has had great success at shows;
only this year she achieved 5 NOM and 1 BIV on 6 shows, and she always gets
excellent judgements. She is also a Grand International Champion in FIFe. This
shows that she is an excellent representative for the Burmese breed in FIFe.
Another cat. also with BOM parents, imported from LOOF France has been
registered as Burmese in SVERAK, Nacho des Lac Hong, (SE)SVERAK RX 343097
RR, http://stambok.sverak.se/Stambok/Visa/438339 . Nacho also has a pedigree
stating him as Burmese; this shows that LOOF also register cb/cb offspring from two
BOM as BUR. Nacho is owned by Anne Nordström, Piapizzi’s, FMK/SVERAK.
When a FIFe breeder buys a registered Burmese kitten from a TICA or other
federation breeder I guess one expects it to be registered as BUR also in FIFe. But
we knew, and we double checked this with SVERAK before, that Quinzy would be
registered as XSH n 31 [BUR], because of his one BOM parent. Just as we knew
that one of the allowed BOM breedings we have made (BOM/BUR) would result in a
litter where all kittens would have to go through 13b to be re-registered as BOM.
The very reason we asked BRC about the registration of cb/cb outcome from two
BOM was because we did see some difficulties regarding this in the FIFe rules. So
we didn’t want to proceed further with the project until this question was dealt with in
BRC and the matter clarified. We only pointed out that it would be extremely strange
if these offspring could be registered as BUR in FIFe if they are bred by a TICA
breeder, but not if they are bred by a FIFe breeder. We thought it was BRC who
would clarify this and help us with a solution; your letter though, implies that we
should have all the answer ourselves.
Some Bombay facts:
The Bombay originated as a hybrid between American Shorthair and Burmese. In all
other federations breeding of BOM that results in cats carrying the cb gene is
allowed. Two Bombays carrying the cb gene can thus give birth to cb/cb (Burmese)
kittens. In TICA, WCF, LOOF and CFA cross breeding BOM and BUR (n) is allowed
(in TICA even if it results in not pointed blue or chocolate self, which are not
recognized colours of BOM, nor BUR).
TICA, WCF and LOOF all register the brown cb/cb kittens as Burmese, no matter if
both the parents are BOM. There are no need for recognition as BUR; the
registration rules states how the registration of the kittens is done. In CFA they
register these offsprings as BOM sepia (n 31). But they have a temporary rule saying
they can be freely mated with Burmese after confirmation on the cb/cb genetics. The
offspring will be registered as Burmese without recognition process. This rule is
expected to be permananted at the next CFA GA. We attach documentation on this.
The fact remains: the BOM is now in FIFe and there WILL be cb/cb offsprings
eventually. As BUR is an allowed outcross for BOM in other federations, it will be
almost impossible for FIFe breeders to get hold of non cb carriers. The breeders of
BOM in other federation has long lists of buyers before the litter is even born… they
do not have to sell to FIFe breeders and they are definitely not interested in DNA
testing a whole litter to find a non cb carrier for us. To keep the genetic diversity as
high as possible we will (and have already) also use BUR n in breeding BOM, which
will render in all cb carriers BOM. Thus we WILL eventually get cb/cb offsprings,
hence our question to you.
As for the standard of the Bombay; no, they do not normally have the same standard
in other federations (LOOF being one exception) and will not have in FIFe either.
When having both BUR and BOM in a litter you will immediately see the difference
between the breeds, not just by color. The Bombays have ears set high, round eyes
with copper color. They also have different shape of the paws, different coat quality,
ear shape and body, etc. Mary could see this difference herself in the litter with
Quinzy and his sister Qajza; two totally different types of cats in the same litter, one
Burmese and one Bombay. BOM breeders we have talked to are saying the same
thing: you see the difference despite the cats being from the same litter.
Regarding the Burmese:
As we hope you all know by now, the Burmese breed is in danger. It’s genetic
diversity is catastrophic and something needs to be done to make the breed
healthier. We’re enclosing the report from Dr Leslie Lyons that explains the situation.
In 2017 the FIFe GA made a drastic decision to open the novice classfor the
Burmese, because of the lack of genetic diversity in the breed. This alone should
show that the situation is alarming.
To open the novice class allowing a random street cat with traits of the Burmese to
be recognized as Burmese, but totally close the door for cats that genetically are
Burmese, born out of parent that are hybrids from Burmese, to be registered as
Burmese, is just silly. Especially as they are already registered and recognized as
such in other federations. This also raises a curious question: do the BRC know of
any case of novice application for the Burmese yet? The Burmese BC does not know
of any, so maybe other ways to help the breed is necessary.
If one reads the report of Dr Lyons one can see that she among else mention using
Contemporary Burmese and Burmese offspring from Bombay, to help save the
Burmese breed. CFA has made their rule about the registration of BUR offspring
from BOM just because of the high inbreeding coefficient in their Burmese; their
percentage is at 38%. In the European Burmese it is even more alarming with an IC
We also want to mention that Securitazz Jewlzgalore, the cat it all started with, today
has registered offspring in NRR, Ch Templebar Cullinan V for Morgan, (NO) NRR RX
188480, a litter who follows the recommendations from Leslie Lyons to the point, as
it is one of the most diverse in Burmese breeding today.
Maybe we should also inform you that both Mary and Britta are members of the
Burmese Breed Council, Britta is the secretary. This fact should be known to the
BRC as one of your members has received all our applications for that BC too. We
have no problem taking the work we do in one place and apply it to another place,
so, yes, we have a pretty good idea on the thoughts of the BUR BC. But as there are
not enough members in either Breed Council to give proposals to the GA, we hope
that the commissions recognize the problem we have made you aware of, and deal
with it accordingly.
We have some suggestions on how to handle this problem, suggestions that you
hopefully can bring to the FIFe GA already next year;
1. Since the Burmese really need an addition of new blood, do what CFA has
done and make an exception for the Burmese breed. Register the cb/cb
offspring after two BOM as BOM n 31 but suggest for them to be allowed to
use in the Burmese breeding without need of 13b recognition to register the
offspring as BUR, like in CFA.
2. Make an exception for the BOM to have all cb/cb born from BOM parent
registered as XSH n 31 [BUR], to be able to have them registered as BUR n
after recognition in class 13b.
3. As in number 2, but allow the brown pointed offspring to be registered as BUR
n after genetic tests that shows them being genetically cb/cb.
Since number 1 will exclude the cb/cb offspring totally from shows, we would prefer a
solution like the one in number 2 or 3.
We need to do something for the Burmese, as opening the novice class won’t help a
bit. In the BOM breeding there are cats genetically identifiable as Burmese (cb/cb),
cats that can do a lot for the genetic diversity in the Burmese Breed. Cats that will
not bring any strange colors or pattern, nor any other genetic issues not known into
the Burmese breed – Can we say that about a random cat without pedigree with traits
of a Burmese?
You have to understand that we are not taking this fight mainly for the sake of the
Bombay! We in the BOM BC are also Burmese breeders and are highly involved in
doing our part to save the Burmese from the massive inbreeding. Britta has brought
Thai foundation lines into her Burmese breeding program and Mary has brought in
American Contemporary lines and Bombay lines into hers.
We see that our work for the BOM breed can benefit the BUR. We also see that
there can be possible problems dealing with pedigrees from other federations unless
this question gets sorted. The reason our questions has come up was the fact that
BOM cb/cb offspring from other federations has been registered in SVERAK as XSH
n 31 [BUR]. Something we actually find being a good thing.
We know, rules are rules, but exceptions are being made to rules every day… and in
this matter there are a lot of other federations backing the registration of cb/cb
offspring from BOM as BUR. Yes, this is FIFe and we have our rules, but stating that
rules in all other federations are irrelevant, is somewhat ignorant, as breeders in
FIFe cooperate with breeders in other federations all the time.
And if what you write is correct; that WE in the BOM BC must decide what is going to
happen to pointed offspring from BOM, well then we don’t have a problem: We will
then decide that they will be registered as BUR (but we suspect that it’s not really
As I’m sure you can see by the above, we did our homework, thus it is a bit insulting
when you imply in your questions that we have no clue what we are doing, and
lecture us for whatever errors that might have been done by the registrars of the
FIFe countries involved. If an error is done in registering cats, not even owned by
any of the members of the BOM BC or part of the BOM recognition, why ask the
BOM BC about it and start shouting at us? Take this matter to whoever is
responsible and sort it out there.
You also ask us about the documentation we sent to SVERAK. Is it not possible for
the BRC to actually ask it’s own BRC member working at SVERAK head office to
provide this documentation? All documents sent by us so far in this BOM project is
at SVERAK head office, and the receiver of the documents in SVERAK, the
SVERAK registrar, is a member of the BRC. We find it surprising that it seems
impossible for the BRC to take knowledge from one assignment to another. But we
attach the documentation to make things easier.
The standard is under revision by the JSC, who has been involved in the discussion
about the FIFe BOM standard from the start. Regarding the requirements for
breeders in three countries for preliminary recognition; yes, we are very aware of this
rule. As for the questions regarding colors and outcross colors, it’s explained in the
standard and in our other documentation sent to SVERAK, but we attached it for
We understand that this letter spans over more than the work of the BRC, so we
send it to all the commissions in hope to get all of FIFe involved in the process to get
the Bombay breed recognized. We also understand you want to avoid a situation like
the one in THA. So do we, hence our question in the first place.
Mary Hellman, Secretary BOM non Breed Council
Britta Kjellin, Secretary, BUR Breed Council